Dan Cron Discusses NM Penitentiary Riot on Michael Stout’s Podcast

Host: Welcome to True Believers and the Road to Hell. Today we’re joined by Dan Cron, who’s a prominent attorney here in New Mexico. It was February of 1980 that there was a shock, a jolt to the system of New Mexico when we had the New Mexico prison riot. And people who were around at that time and remember those times remember remember how ugly it was, how devastating it was, how fascinating it was. And u it was a it was a really emotional and turbulent time, a shock to the penitentiary system as well as the court system and and to a lot of individuals. Of course, uh 33 prisoners were killed at that time and it was one of the worst prison uh outbreaks in in uh United States history. That brings me to Dan because Dan uh has had a special role with respect to that uh riot and the the things that happened after the riot. and we’re going to ask him about it. But, uh, Dan, back in 1980, how old were you?

 

 

Dan: Well, let’s see. I was um at the time of the riot 28 years old.

 

 

Host: So tell us about your special role or how you got involved with uh riot related issues.

 

 

Dan: Well, I at the time I was in law school and a law professor of mine had been appointed as a special master on a prison conditions case involving the Georgia State Prison. That prison at the time had the reputation for being the most violent prison in the south. And ironically, on February 2nd, which is when the riot, uh, broke out here in Santa Fe, um, I was on my way back from a trip to the prison in Georgia and had a very, uh, harrowing plane ride back um, uh, filled with storms and delays. And so I’d basically been up all night and I got back home uh in Toledo, excuse me, which is where I was living at the time. And so I got there like about 7:00 in the morning and I remember turning on the TV and seeing the first images of what was going on. And the thought went through my head at the time, boy, I’m sure glad I don’t have anything to do with that place. Little did I know. Uh so what ended up happening then is that uh I graduated uh from law school in um I guess it would have been May of 1980. And um by that time uh the Duran case uh which was the prison conditions case here in Santa Fe um uh had been working its way through a number of uh orders relating to the um conditions there and they need that was all

 

 

Host: just to clarify that that was Oh, pre- riot.

 

 

Dan: No, not all of it. Well, the some the case was filed pre- riot pre- riot, but there was only a tiny fraction of the the court orders that ended up happening. there was only a tiny fraction of those in place. And so, what happened is as a result of the riot, the two parties hammered out agreements, on a variety of areas of prison life really, which encompassed, every possible thing from staffing to overcrowding, medical care, food service, you know, really everything. And so they needed somebody to monitor the the order. And so they had heard about the work that I had done in Georgia because at the time there there were several prison cases conditions cases going on. This was before the Supreme Court basically gutted u the prison conditions uh rights. and so there were only about five of us in the country at the time who were doing that kind of work. So they heard about the work that I had done in Georgia and they called me and asked if I would come for an interview.

 

 

Host: Who’s they? Who’s they?

 

 

Dan: They being the corrections department. And so, I I said yes. I would come for an interview and then I got a map out to try and figure out where in the world Santa Fe, New Mexico was. cuz I I had only once been west of the Mississippi. And so to make a long story short, I came out I was interviewed and I was hired for the job.

 

 

Host: What what exactly was the job?

 

 

Dan: Well, the job title was compliance monitor and what the parties wanted. when I say the parties, the uh the corrections department was represented by the New Mexico Attorney General’s office and it was Jeff Bingaman who was the AG at the time. and the National Prison Project with Ralph Nolles as their lead council and then local council was uh Freriedman Boyd and Daniels. And so what they had requested of the judge who was Jimmy Compost, Santiago Compost was, they wanted a special master because the the advantage to a special master is that it the special master was an agent of the court and so responded to the court. Judge Compost and this this is something that always you know had amazed me. Judge Compost had little to no interest in the case even after the riot happened and he refused to appoint me as a special master. So the parties tried to structure the job as close to that of a special master. But the basic flaw in it was that I was hired by a contract from the corrections department and it was intended that I be completely independent. but as I’m sure we’ll get into later on in the conversation, once they saw my reports,

 

 

Host: they they didn’t think you were independent, right?

 

 

Dan: That’s right. So so that’s that’s how I became involved with the case.

 

 

Host: So what was the I mean obviously the riot had a huge impact on that But well well maybe I shouldn’t make that assumption. Go ahead. You tell me.

 

 

Dan: So so what’s your question?

 

 

Host: Well, in terms of the the effect of the I mean how the riot and the aftermath of the riot, how that fits into your your work.

 

 

Dan: Oh, okay. So what my job was was to submit reports as to the compliance of the corrections department to or with I should say the the federal court orders. And so what I did was I spent oh gosh I probably before everything was said and done spent a couple of thousand hours actually inside the walls. of the prison. and I went about the business of trying to determine what the compliance was with the court orders. Now there were so the first thing that I did was the way that the orders were drafted and constructed it it it didn’t lend itself to easily report on individual parts of it. And so what I did was I took the order and broke it down into a series of um single issues you know for compliance and then I I had three categories one was compliance another was non-compliance and then the other was no finding because there are certain things that I was not able to make a finding on because I didn’t have enough information. And I and so what I did was well the first thing I did once I got to the prison was to establish a couple of inmate committees because I obviously couldn’t u you know deal with everybody. And so, there was one representative from, each housing unit, except for cell block three. Cell block three was the maximum security cell block. And I think I had about six maybe members of cell block 3 who were on that committee. And those committees I met with separately.

 

 

Host: So, What is the excuse me Dan for but I’m curious about you you got this call as I as I’m understanding you correct me if I’m wrong but you got this call asking for your services or or inquiring about your services just soon after the riot. Am I right?

 

 

Dan: Yes.

 

 

Host: So when is the first time that you actually came here?

 

 

Dan: Well let’s see. I think the first time I actually came was in about maybe September.

 

 

Host: Okay. So then, so you when you say you went inside the walls, I was I was wondering how fresh the riot aftermath was when you went there. I mean, obviously it it had changed pretty dramatically in in in the six or seven months that before you got there, but it still was it was still a war zone essentially.

 

 

Dan: It was when I got there in terms of the physical plant the walls were still black from the soot from the fires and you could you could still smell that there were some dormitories that were condemned and so they were in that they at that time were left in the same condition as you know when the riot ended. there was uh some construction going on but you know the physical plant was still in in utter disrepair.

 

 

Host: Well also the u I’m sure it affected your job also. you’re talking about the inmate committees. a lot of people had been transferred out of the penitentiary around out of Santa Fe and so I’m sure that I’m sure that must have caused you some difficulty as well in trying to I don’t know that I’m assuming that you wanted to have communication with a lot of people who weren’t even there anymore.

 

 

Dan: That really didn’t end up being a problem for me. and you know what what I the the one of the first things well let let me just tell you a little bit first about the arrangement that I had with them. So, the arrangement that I had was that I had I I had a a prison pass that I wore just like any staff member there. and the arrangement was that I could go anywhere I wanted to at any time of the night or day and that I would be unaccompanied by any prison staff. Now that was for a few reasons. one is that you know it it would have stymied u intimidating communication you know that I I would have had but the other thing is it would have cut into my legitimacy in the eyes of the prisoners you know because they would have viewed me as being you know basically a you know a tool of a staff on my very first visit there, there was a confrontation that happened that ended up legitimizing me in the eyes of the prisoners. I the the the first day that I went there, I decid I the first thing I did was to go introduce myself. So, I went to all the housing units, told them who I was, and what my purpose was, and I told them that I was not an onbudsman, you know, and, and that I wasn’t there to handle individual complaints except to the extent that it was something that fit under one of the categories of the court order. So I started at the dormatory end of the prison and worked my way then towards the other end and the last unit I went into was cell block three. Now, cell block three was the cell block. It was the maximum security cell block. And while uh you are correct that there were a number of prisoners that were shipped out of state because of the overcrowding. among those that were transferred were not the people from Cellblock 3 because at that time it included uh all of the prisoners who were charged with prison crimes. And so they were all there. so I went into Cellblock 3 and I I didn’t really know it at the time, but I found out shortly after. The staff was so frightened by the prisoners who were in cell block 3 that no staff member would go in unless all everybody was in their cell and the doors were locked. They were afraid to have any contact whatsoever. So when when I went to cell block three, everybody was out milling around u you know in the cell block. They saw me come in and so I said I said, “Okay, you know, let me in.” And he said, “Oh, no, no, we can’t do that.” And I said, “What do you mean?” And he said, “Well, you know, nobody goes in there unless everyone is in their cells.” And I said, “Okay, I have this pass. I’m permitted to go anywhere in the prison at any time, and I want to go in there, and I want to go in there.” Now, by this time, all of the the prisoners who are out are watching this confrontation to see who’s going to win. And they and and they said, “No, we can’t let you in.” And I said, “Call the warden.” So, they called the warden and the warden said, “Let him in.” So, I went in and you know, just treated it like I was at a Kowanas Club meeting. I was shaking hands and introducing myself and, you know, telling them, I’m I’m going to need a committee from the cell block here. I don’t care how you choose it. but I’ll be back in a couple of days to find out and you know, we’ll get things going. that confrontation then ended up legitimizing me because they you know they they they saw that I was neither afraid of them you know the prisoners nor the staff and so that was that was how things got started.

 

 

Host: Well, I can I can attest that that cell block 3 was notorious. Of course, it was it was the center center of a case that we tried, a riot case that we tried back in the day. And so, I guess were you aware of the reputation of Cellblock 3 at the time you had that confrontation? I’m wondering if if maybe if you knew everything about self three, you might you might have thought twice about it. But no, I I understand it makes perfect sense that you having that conversation in front of those inmates was very helpful to you.

 

 

Dan: Well, it was. And the way that I knew that they thought that I was legit is that you know, and this was something that I had learned working the Georgia prison case, is that if if you were viewed as being legitimate, then you know, the the the leaders you know, the hardest guys wanted to be on the committee because they viewed that as, you know, a a source of having some power. And so, the list of who was, on my cellb block 3 committee, was a list of everybody who was charged with, the worst murder crimes, you know. Right. Right. And, and I I actually got to know all those folks real well.

 

 

Host: That’s interesting. So, let’s I’m wondering when you hear about the riot, you get this you get we get this call and you’re going to get these services. Did it ever give you was the was the riot kind of a source of u invigoration to you? Okay.

 

 

Dan: Yeah. Really makes me want to do this job.

 

 

Host: or did it give you pause to say I don’t know you know that doing this compliance thing in these circumstances is really difficult.

 

 

Dan: I I had no compunction about or second thoughts about doing it you know I was young u ready to go and and I went brighteyed and bushy tailed you know that was it

 

 

Host: That was it well let’s talk about that for a second though you You were 28 at the time you did that. What what was your start that got you into this? You don’t really look like a prison guy to me. for better or worse, no offense, but how how did you tell us a little bit about your background that got you to the to be a lawyer in the first place?

 

 

Dan: Well, so let’s see. I was so I I had actually wanted to be a lawyer ever since I was in like the eighth grade really. And I grew up on a farm and in a in a very small community and when I went in

 

 

Host: Ohio, is that right? Yes.

 

 

Dan: Yes. uh I I I grew up on a farm outside of a little town called Salina, Salena, Ohio. which bordered uh it was 10 miles from the Indiana border. And so when I went to college, it was a great shock to me and I struggled academically for a couple of years. but then I got my footing and did well with my grades. But when I had uh when I applied for law school, you know, at that time let’s see, I’m trying to think if the Vietnam War had ended. I’m not sure. But in any event, it was very competitive to get into law school.

 

 

Host: And where did you go to law school?

 

 

Dan: I went to law school in Toledo. And so, when I applied, I, was initially turned down and so, you know, in the instructions that you get and everything else, they said they don’t do personal interviews and, you know, we we don’t do that sort of thing. So, I immediately knew that that was exactly what I needed to do. and I put my suit on and drove to Toledo and presented myself at the dean of admissions office to the law school and the secretary I identified myself to the secretary and she wanted to know what I wanted and I said well I’d like to talk about my application and the dean had his door open and he was in there so I knew he was there so they took my file in and he looked at it and he said well he said you know you know u the re the reason why we turned you down is because you know there’s there’s just so many people applying it’s not that we don’t think you know that you could do the work or you know be a lawyer it’s just that we don’t have enough room and so I said well let make sure I got this straight. So, you’re saying that you think that, you know, I I’m qualified to do it, but you just don’t have the room. Is that right? And he said, “Yes.” And I said, “Okay.” I said, “I’ll tell you what. You let me in and I won’t take anybody’s seat. I’ll stand in the back of the room during classes if you let me in.” And that then led to me being put on the waiting list. And then I I bought what was the state-of-the-art at the time u which was a an answering machine. Of course there were no such things as cell phones then and I got home from work one day and it was about 5 days before school was supposed to start and they said a spot’s opened up. Are you still interested? So, I, immediately quit my job, I, I had a nice car at the time. I sold it and got a $600 car that would run, so that I would have money for tuition and, you know, to pay for an apartment and u, I loaded up what few possessions I had and went to law school.

 

 

Host: So, you didn’t have to stand in the back of the room, I guess.

 

 

Dan: I did not. Yeah. I was admitted to the night program, which was good because I didn’t have the money and so I worked during the day.

 

 

Host: What were you doing? What were you working at?

 

 

Dan: Well, for for the first term I worked at a an electrical warehouse, but I a cousin of mine was a prosecutor in Toledo and an opening came up to clerk for a judge. There they had law students who would clerk for judges. he put in a good word for me and I got hired. So I was in a courtroom every day for two years. and during the course of that I met a number of lawyers and one of them recommended me to Vince Nathan who was a law professor and Vince was the person who was the special master u in a couple of cases in Ohio. and the law student he had working for him had just graduated and he needed somebody. So basically I got hooked up and I had always been interested. I had read a lot about the abuses that had gone on in prisons around the country. And I thought it was an opportunity to do something about that, you know, to try to make things right. And so, I I quit the clerking job, you know, which everybody thought I was crazy because I took a pay cut to do it. but, and I started working then with Vince. And shortly after that, he was, appointed as special master on the Georgia case. And so, that’s that’s what got my foot in the door in Georgia, which then led to me coming here.

 

 

Host: Wow. That’s it’s quite a quite a train of events. But but it all started when you did you say when you were 8 years old? Is that what you said you wanted to be a lawyer since you were 8 years old?

 

 

Dan: Eighth grade. Yeah. Eighth. Eighth grade.

 

 

Host: Okay. Eighth grade. So why why was it in the eighth grade you wanted to be a lawyer? Watch a TV show or Perry Mason or something or what what was going on there?

 

 

Dan: Well, I I had a tremendous interest and and read the paper. there was a lot going on at that time and that was when you know the the freedom writers were trying to register black folks to vote in Mississippi and and across the south. and you know, I saw what was going on with the abuses that were going on with that. and there was a particular case that I followed really closely and identified with and it was the Sam Shepard case. He was a doctor in Cleveland and he you know and since it was in Ohio, you know, it was in all the papers. He had been convicted of murdering his wife, but I had been reading all these newspaper accounts and I was convinced that he was innocent. his case ended up going to the Supreme Court and it got reversed because the both the the prosecutor well there was going to be an election in 3 weeks and the prosecutor was running for judge and the sitting judge was running for reelection and the the Supreme Court described the atmosphere as a Roman holiday. so he got a new trial.

 

 

Host: Ethley Bailey stepped in at that point, didn’t he?

 

 

Dan: He did. Yeah, that was that was one of the cases that catapulted him to national promise pro prominence. And so I I followed all that very closely. And then I I saw how the courts were able to um address the abuses that were going on you know with black folks. And I recognized that it was a way to write wrongs. And I wanted to do that. I I I wanted, you know, I identified with people who were wrongly accused and I identified you know, with you know, sort of in a moral sense of some of the things were going on and and I saw that the law was a way to write those wrongs. And so that uh that’s that’s what, you know, fueled my passion.

 

 

Host: It sounds like you even and then you targeted your passion was targeted to this prison work. And and criminal defense. Yes. So let’s get back to that then in terms of well m I’ll ask a maybe unanswerable question but in terms of how do you compare that experience that you started with you were brighteyed and bushy tailed and very enthusiastic and idealistic sounds like wanting to write the want wrongs of the world. How do you how do you compare that with today?

 

 

Dan: Well, in terms of in terms of what I’ve seen at the prisons, first of all, it is no place that anyone would ever want to go to by choice. but there has been tremendous improvement. you know here in New Mexico still far from perfect but there has been tremendous improvement from when I first came here. um the one of the things and this might be a place to talk about some of the aftershocks uh from you know from the riot you know which I saw when I came.

 

 

Host: Well, let me Dan, just for those if anybody’s listening who and they’re not as familiar as you are, we are on some of these issues, why don’t you give us a 30-second description of what we’re talking about in terms of the it’s hard to do in 30 seconds, but you know what I mean. in terms of the the just the horrendous nature of what the riot was about, what the what the what the damage and injury and was.

 

 

Dan: Well, you know, you you uh had mentioned that 33 prisoners died. there was Attica. there were more prisoners that were killed in Adica, but but the difference is that all of those prisoners died during the takeover and died at the hands of the the troops that took the prison over in New Mexico. All 33 deaths were at the hands of other prisoners. And so what what that did then was to there in terms of what led to the riot first you know if if there was one word to describe what led to the riot it was neglect. the prison was out of sight, out of mind and there was no scrutiny that was going on at the time. It was tremendously understaffed and they operated on the snitch system. so what the guards would do would be to get prisoners to basically tell on each other and then the guards would act upon what they were told and then the people who had given the information were deemed to be snitches. And of course, if you look at the hierarchy uh of the clientele in a prison, the snitches are at the bottom. And and so the snitches were all housed in cell block 4 here in Santa Fe. And so, the the, the food service was terrible, the medical care was terrible, and basically it just all boiled over you know, on February 2nd, and that’s that’s what led up to it. The the staff itself was undertrained. I mean, you know, by the time by the time I came here, for one reason or another, I’d probably been in 30 or 40 prisons, around the country for one reason or another. And hands down um the the the the competency of the staff here was the worst of any place that I had been to. And uh they were just undertrained. they were overwhelmed and you know and those are all things that contributed to the riot.

 

 

Host: And these are also things that you, I’m sure, alluded to in your report that was not that was not received favorably by some people. Right.

 

 

Dan: Right. Yeah.

 

 

Host: And so, I don’t know if now is a good time to talk about my report, but, Go ahead.

 

 

Dan: Go ahead. Okay. So, so I was, you know, like I say, I was in my 20s and, at a time, you know, I had a baby face.

 

 

Host: You still do, Dan, by the way.

 

 

Dan: Thank you.

 

 

Host: You look like you’re 28.

 

 

Dan: I got carded at a time when they didn’t card people well into my 30s. And so, you know, I had this baby face and, you know, my my demeanor is you know, I’m I’m not combative. and so they mistook, you know, my my pleasant nature for weakness you know, and and my appearance. And so I I think that they thought, you know, that I would write some 20page report and they’d be rid of me. Well, my first report was 350 pages long. it was not complimentary, of the operation. and what I did, the way that I gathered my information to to uh make the report, was through a variety of means. one was to gather information from the prisoners from my inmate committees. and then I also talked to staff members. U I also reviewed all kinds of records. And one of the things that I learned early on before I ever got here is that it was a huge mistake to make a negative finding based solely on the the word of the prisoners. Mhm. And so so I sought other ways to try to show what was apparent to me as non-compliance. And I can give you one example. U and this was this was something that really pissed off the corrections department because they thought it was dirty pool. So there was there was a a section in the court order that related to legal male. And what the court order did was it created certain categories of people who would send mail in to prisoners that was considered to be confidential. And so in order to open any of that mail, there had to be some sort of legal cause for them to open the mail. So, I I kept the the prisoners kept telling me that every letter that came to him, regardless of who it came from, was opened. And what the prison had was uh I I I don’t know exactly what you called it. I called it a letter slicer, but it it would it would slice off, you know, a little bit of the top of an envelope and then you know, then they they could look at the mail and when the prisoners received it it would um you know, it would be open. And so the among these categories of of what was considered to be privileged communication, it was like you know legislators, uh ministers, lawyers, and and one of them was the media. So when I was in Toledo working in the court system there, I’d gotten to know some of the local reporters and the newspaper there was the Toledo Blade and the Blade in in their envelopes had proclaimed themselves as being one of America’s great newspapers. So, it was apparent, you know, from the envelope that it it was coming from a newspaper. So, I called up one of the reporters I knew and asked him if they’d send me a bunch of empty envelopes and and he did. So, I then put a letter together that I sent out to each of my inmate representatives and I basically said, you know, dear so and so, as you know, section blah blah blah of the court order uh state has certain forms of privilege communication. I’m sending this letter to you in an envelope that’s clearly marked as being from a newspaper. when you receive this letter, hang on to it and I’ll collect it you know next week when I you know when we have our our meeting. So I went and of course every single one of them had been opened and you know they was all the same you know that that you know it was like with a razor blade you know right and so that was the proof I had that they weren’t you know that they weren’t complying with that part of the court order and they were really steamed about that after the report came out you know but those were some of the things that I did and came up with

 

 

Host: you What? Let me ask about that. I mean, okay, they’re really steamed, but they’re really steamed because they got caught, you mean?

 

 

Dan: Yeah. Not they didn’t have any like rationale or

 

 

Host: or did they that was there rationale for things and I want to ask you about that specifically and generally speaking, you were mention mentioned the the non credibility of singly an inmate. but was there argument against your com your report that well you’re cheating by doing the you’re being sneaky and also everything’s relying on people who are not credible to begin with.

 

 

Dan: Well, first of all, I I never made a, a negative finding based solely on the, the word of a prisoner. And the second thing that they were really esteemed about was and frankly I I never understood any of this um you know in terms of their reaction but I would go around and talk to staff members who were involved you know in whatever the particular area was and you know I would take notes and then when I wrote the report, the the the things that the prisoners had told me that then, you know, staff members uh confirmed I used that, you know, basically the what the staff said or if if there was documentation you know, from you know, cuz the prison had all kinds of forms and other things and I would either I I I I would base negative findings on um those things, you know, what staff had told me and and what the records would show in addition to what the the prisoners had told me. So after um and so they never once challenged anyone of my negative findings as being as being untrue. all they could say and all they said to the press was that it was unbalanced. And and so what I did was and this

 

 

Host: unbalanced unbalanced because what?

 

 

Dan: Because I made all these negative findings and and the findings of compliance by comparison were you know not very many not very many you know few and far between. So I got this

 

Host: go ahead I’m sorry.

 

Dan: Well, so so what I did was and then this this this whole scenario is is an interesting story. So what I did was I did a draft of the report and I sent the draft to both parties and I told them that you know this was an opportunity for them if they thought I had anything wrong to tell me and that I would change it before I submitted it to the report. So when I went to meet with the people from the corrections department and keep in mind that it was just me, you know, I you know I I didn’t have some huge staff. I I had a secretary who did the typing and that was it. So they they wanted to have a meeting with me to talk about the report and I said okay fine. So they held the meeting over in the baton building u which originally before the roundhouse was built was where the legislature met and there was a room in there that had this long table that probably sat 30 people. So I walk in there and there are 30 people sitting around all from the corrections department and all of them staring at me. and so I I this is like going into subblock three right worse worse than that. They like me there. Yeah. so, anyhow, I go in and, the only complaints that they had was, well, first of all, they they cited the one I told you about the legal mail. Okay. I mean, they were really steamed about that. But the other thing that they were really steamed about was it was as though somehow with these interviews that I did with their own staff members and when their staff members told me things and then I I you know included

 

Host: You relied on them.

 

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. When I when I included that in my report, it w it was like I I I betrayed some kind of a norm by outing the staff members. You know, they never not with one single uh negative finding that I made. They never made any substantive challenge to it because I had them cold, you know, on all of them. So meanwhile what happened was I I had like I say sent it to the parties and I I I don’t know who but I have a good idea who gave a copy of my draft report to the Albuquerque Journal. And so on the day I remember it was a Friday in May and I of 1981. And so I went to the courthouse and submitted the report and by coincidence my it was the first time that my parents were going to come out and visit me and then I drove to the airport to go pick them up. So, Saturday morning rolls around and you know, I picked up the Albuquerque Journal from my doorstep and they had been given a copy of the draft report. And so there was like two full pages or maybe more. I It’s been decades since I’ve looked at, you know, a copy of of it. But um and they detailed all you know two or three pages worth of newsprint to all the details that I had in the report and they created the this graph and the graph was with guard towers and so there was a guard tower for non-compliance you know on the graph and then another one for compliance and then another one for no findings. And that that was on the front page. And so, you know, that then, you know, really caused uh that coverage really caused an explosion, you know, of reaction by the public and the papers. And so the corrections pardon, go ahead.

 

Host: I was just going to ask if you if that resulted in you getting stonewalled by Well, it was a little more than that. fired or what?

 

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. since since I was you know technically under contract with the with the corrections department sort of the the the side uh agreement you know among all the parties was was that they would just keep you know every fiscal year you know that they would reup the contract. Well, so the fiscal year here in New Mexico for the state ends in um at the end of June and it was the last couple of days of May I think it was when I had submitted the report. So Roger Christ was the director of corrections at the time and I get a phone call to come pay him a visit. So, I went in and I was informed that I was informed that I was that they were not going to renew my contract, you know, in effect firing me. and so I said, “Well, okay.” and I was really worried that that that would cause another uprising out at the prison. And so, I decided that what I was going to do was, to hold a press conference. And of course, as soon as I called the press conference, the corrections department is wondering, you know, what’s what’s this, you know, what’s he going to say, you know, because what I was going to do was to explain exactly what had happened. So that and and I was going to uh make a plea for calm at the prison you know and and you know and asked that you know that that there not be an uprising. So that then uh created discussions between plaintiffs council and defense council. And so before the press conference was going to happen they agreed that I would be my contract would be extended for another 6 months or eight months or I I it was six or eight months. I I don’t remember. and so that’s that’s how all that happened.

 

Host: Now, so there were a couple of, motions that got filed. you did finalize, you you had sent this draft out. You did finalize that. Is that right?

 

Dan: Yeah. And since neither side had any substantive change, you know, that they brought to my attention, you know, their corrections department, all they did was complain. you know,

 

Host: but but they they did they let you continue to talk to their staff? yeah. Yeah. In the next six or eight months, even though you they knew you’d be using that factually and maybe against them. Yeah.

 

Dan: Yeah.

 

Host: Well, you know, Dan, there’s a there’s a there’s a almost limitless number of things that we could talk about with respect to the the riot and your involvement in it. I think it’s fascinating and it and it also brings back some memories since I was around at that time as well. But but I’m going to take a detour here for just a second and that is because I know that you’ve got a lot of other experiences you can tell us about that are not ride related. But I one thing that that is that people should know and probably do by now is that you’re the recipient of the latest Driscoll award from NMCDLA and I want to congratulate you for that and just get your get your reaction. this we’re we’re doing this on June the 6th and you’re going to get the award I think next week I believe and so just wanted to congratulate you on that and get your reaction.

 

Dan: Well, thank you. I am deeply honored um by the recognition and you know to be included with the prior recipients you know which include you is uh an honor that I will always cherish and um honestly it’s I I’ve been overwhelmed by it. it’s it’s a wonderful experience.

 

Host: Well, I I’m glad you have that that feeling and you’re certainly well deserving and and you you deserve all the recognition in part as shown by our interview up to this point. because just of you know your brighteyed enthusiasm is really inspirational and I don’t know it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s not that normal you know and and it’s very good to to to see that and hear that from you. So we’re going to end this segment. We’re going to we will continue to talk about your experiences in the next segment and including the riot and other things other aspects of your life. But for now this will be this segment of true believers and the road to hell.